haha, nice one!
Posts by lj
New book on the whole history of the Düsseldorf scene, Kraftwerk included:
Just learned today that Kraftwerk themselves stole a melody for at least one of their tunes. "Tour de France" uses fragments of a piece from German modernist composer Paul Hindemith:
Wow, I guess that's the original bpm but it feels so fast, almost like hip-house.
If you don't mind me derailing this thread, here's an interesting contrast: Not a remix, but borrowing heavily from Jam on it … and it's slooooooooooow:
Ok, quite a few points to adress, but I'll try to keep it short.
I think we have come to a point where we can agree to disagree. Basically, for you electro is defined by the theme while for me it is defined by the music.
I am still not convinced by the "theme" argument. Take Daft Punk for instance: robot/machine imagery, titles like "robot rock" etc. … but would you call them electro? Of course not. A lot of idm or industrial acts have that robot image, too. Where do you draw the line? Then again - as I already said - a lot of proper electro does have NO robot/machine theme at all. Again, THE defining electro tune that started the whole genre (Planet Rock) wouldn't even be called electro by your definition!
Concerning electro disco: Your "fusion" argument has its appeal, I must admit. With most current or new school electro, you have some amount of crossover going on, so a fusion of electro and disco might not be too surprising after all. Listening to your examples, I'd still say it's primarily disco … but of course, when an electro producer makes a disco track you will certainly find strong electro elements in there.
Which leads me to an aside:Quote from Squarewave;70575
Maybe you're calling the same thing I'm talking about, by a different name...cause discogs has plenty of late 70's and early 80's releases marked as electro disco.
I am not really familiar with the term electro disco. Do you know more about its origins? My suspicion is that it is a fairly new invention, and that a lot of music now gets labelled electro disco retrospectively. But electronic disco was already called space/italo/cosmic back in the 70s! Which makes sense of course, because this music was around BEFORE electro was born and was even an influence that led to electro.
First off Squarewave, I have to say you come across pretty confrontational and with a whole lot of attitude. I suggest first getting a bit acquainted with the manners on this forum and generally showing a bit more politeness in the discussion. I don't like comparisons with the Westboro Baptist Church or Saudi Arabia thrown at me or having to be called nitpicky or myopic. Remember: We are only exchanging different views about some music, so there is no need to get all worked up about it.Quote from Squarewave;70569
Do we really need to make up a wholly separate genre, just to refer to music that is clearly a fusion of both? Why make up 'space disco'...when electro already deals with themes of space, and when a well known producer like Synth Alien, decides to make a song called Cosmic Disco Lights...why can't that just be what he intended it to be, which is electro disco? Rather than all this fuss and hassle of nitpicking little technicalities and making up new genres?
I didn't make up these genres. Italo disco, space disco, cosmic disco … these genres existed in the late 70s and early 80s. I only brought them up cause the music is pretty much the same as what you call electro disco.Quote from Squarewave;70569
Cosmic Force said this, he said electro isn't a style, it's a theme. He is in that loosely connected group with Boris Divider, Synth Alien, Spectrums Data Forces, and Alek Stark.
So why not apply occam's razor to this...and just say, electro is a theme of robots and machines?
Because, it's simply not true. I would say that about 90% of true 80s electro isn't even about neither robots nor machines. Just off the top of my head, the most important electro tracks like Planet Rock, Boogie Down Bronx, Jam on it, Al-Naafiysh, … not a single one of those has anything to do with robots and machines.
Same with your examples of trance and house: If it doesn't have a 4/4 beat, it is not house and it is not trance, no matter how euphoric or funky it is.
Once again, I am in no way opposed to the label "electro disco"! And I am completely happy with that kind of music being discussed on this forum (I might even like the occasional tune, who knows ). I would just insist that in most cases it is easy to decide if the predominant element is funk (which would make it electro funk) or disco (which would make it electro disco, being a sub genre of disco music).
You have come to the right man … I like these philosophical discussions.
Just a few points:
You have to understand that most people on this forum (including myself) have "old school electro" in mind when they hear the term electro. Meaning a kind of electro funk that was basically an electronic version of hip hop and whose heyday was from 1982 to 1986 (roughly speaking). I'd suggest reading the wikipedia article … even though it is debatable, it still reflects the lowest common denominator regarding the term and the historical development:
I have to disagree with the "theme" argument. Being about robots and futuristic themes doesn't make it electro per se. If it is an electronic disco song, it is still disco music cause the most important musical elements make it disco: the 4/4 beat, the bassline, the bpm etc. I listened to your examples and would call most of them italo disco or space disco (so even historically, these tunes draw obvious influences from those disco traditions and not from electro funk).
Maybe the confusion exists because for me, "electro" is short for "electro funk". When you are talking about electro disco, it is more "electronic disco music" that you have in mind.
P.S. On a completely unrelated note, even "new school electro" is often contested on this forum. For some electro hardliners (including myself ) most new school electro, for example those groups from the Darkbeat movie, is just bad techno and breakbeat music.
pretty clichéd, and he didn't even bother to write his own lyrics (reckless, anyone? ), but all in all this is still pretty dope!
Quote from Squarewave;70516
I'm sure after some time I'll slowly come to see that that's all there is...I just don't want to believe it now. Thinking I'll find another group of people who are sane, and make that group my 'reintroduction' to electro. But shit, if it's like that, can't change the fact that there's like 50 people left, and can't change what kind of people are left.
I just had high expectations is all. I hate having had this on such a pedestal, only to get it all shitted on by disgusting, petty, pathetic people...I want to believe that was a minority.
welcome to EE!
Haven't been around here for a good while, so it's pure luck that I stumbled upon your thread.
I'd say your observations are mostly true … a lot of "die hard" electro fans are in fact really protective about "their" genre. A lot of that is born out of frustration … When that whole electro house thing started, many tried to defend the electro as we know it against the guidos who kept on calling their s**t music electro, too. That turned out to be futile of course, and I can sympathize with the frustration if you look at the irrelevance of electro today contrasted to the omnipresence of electro house in mainstream music.
Then again, electro/electro funk as we understand it on this forum has a pretty clear-cut definition and it involves a broken funk beat. So there's a clear answer as to whether electro disco is electro: It isn't.
But we are open-minded to other forms of electronic music (including disco), so feel free to participate!
man, finally another one!
you left us waiting far too long.
I won't be posting each new video, cause some of my stuff is more 4/4 oriented .. if you are interested nevertheless, feel free to check my fb page.
But I just wanted to drop by cause I think my newest endeavor is FUNKY ENOUGH to be in here:
btw, I just picked up a flyer for a Kraftwerk event at the Frankfurt Jazzfestival … it's going to be on October 24th and it's called "Hommage an Kraftwerk":
Tried to watch it several times, but always failed due to ARTE's crappy servers. Is there anywhere I can still watch this?
Here's part 2 of the Planet Rock video … this time it's not about the tunes Planet Rock was influenced by, but about the tunes that were influenced by Planet Rock. I realize I could have included every single freestyle (or even Miami Bass) tune, but even some of these here might come as a surprise:
Quote from doctorcrack;69503
some rare & weird alternative versions from the 80's
Soul Sonic Force - Planet Rock (Adams Family Mix) (Fee - Bee 1982)
Sid Sidney & Friends - King Pack (Gold Future 1984) love this one!
Le Jazz Hot vol1 - Planet Rock (Hector 1983) the most obscure one!
whoops, totally missed your post. the first two sound rather crappy to my ears, but the third one is so weird that i kinda like it.
Oh I see, thanks a lot!
Yes, I am extremely happy with the Theis synthesizer .. it sounds great and is very fun to work with!
Quote from etekker;69065
cool! der theis klingt echt geil.
I'm not sure I understand the rolling eyes correctly.
I admit the Theis hasn't been used on the new track, but it's been used heavily on the tracks that you already find on bandcamp.
I'd like to add 2 great articles …
The first one is a detailed look into the making of Planet Rock with lots of background information which appeared in the Sound on Sound magazine:
The second one is more in a historical / cultural studies vein and is a well-informed exploration of the ORCH5 sample prominently used in (and made popular by) Planet Rock … Robert Fink's "The story of ORCH5, or, theclassical ghost in the hip-hopmachine":
Since this is the most important track for the evolution of everything this forum is about, I'd like to start a thread where we can collect all the information and stories about Planet Rock. So please contribute!
As a start, I made a video to document all the elements that "Planet Rock" consists of: